Does anyone else have this problem? You probably do.
My best friend, of roughly 12 years, is Christian, was brought up in a stiflingly Christian household and attends a Baptist Church whenever she goes home (to her parents). She has two younger sisters, both very dedicated to their religion. Her father is a Deacon and her mother helps to run all sorts of Church things.
I was brought up in an agnostic household, where my parents allowed my younger brother and myself to make our own decisions - this has lead to us both turning first to Paganism, and then to Atheism. Now that we are both open about being atheists, our mom has allowed herself to be free with her own atheism. Honestly don't know about my dad, he was brought up CofE and I think he's Agnostic.
Occasionally my best friend and I butt heads.
We used to talk about religion and belief systems quite openly - but that was back when I was agnostic and still unsure. Now that I've gone full over and declared myself completely Atheist, the talks never go anywhere. They last about five seconds, before she gets 'frustrated', declares there's no point in talking about it 'because she can't describe her points properly' and says I should talk to her father instead.
I honestly feel a little disappointed. I miss the arguments we used to have about Adam and Eve (at one point I got her to admit that it could, at the very least, be an allegorical story of how the human race began, rather than literal truth.)
Now a comment like 'Oh! It says here, you have to be circumcised to get into Heaven!' (referring to Genesis 17:10-14) is rebutted with 'The Old Testament doesn't really apply these days' and it's left at that.
Where's her conviction? Any hint of my own conviction that pickers-and-choosers should just make their damn minds up, gets frowned at.
(I mean, if she doesn't think the bit about circumcision applies, why does she think that her god creating the Earth/Universe in seven days does? And I know she does think that, she's told me often enough - she honestly still doesn't believe in evolution, despite the fact that we both went to the same school...)
I'm beginning to think that the real problem is not her apparent belief that she couldn't form a decent argument to get her own points across, but that she's beginning to have doubts. And every time I point out some fallacy or other with her great book, she gets flustered and feels guilty with herself.
I don't know - does anyone else have this problem?
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4 comments:
your dad was brought up catholic and went to a catholic school where one of the lovely nun's pushed his head through a glass window :) - he is atheiost now also - just not as vocal as me
glad you think you were alloowed to make your own minds up- that's what was planned :)
I didn't know that! I honestly thought Dad was brought up CofE! Eye-openner o0
And yes - you did well, insofar as AJ and I turned out clear headed and obnoxiously questioning *lol*
Not to interrupt the family gathering :) but in getting on to your question. I don't have any friends who are that religious, at least not openly.
I do have a fundamentalist in my ballroom dancing class. We spent some time discussing religion when I wore my atheist tshirt to a BBQ.
I found he just couldn't present articulate argument after a point. He waffled on about how his brother was an Atheist yet was still very moral WTF?
She wants you to speak to her dad because he obviously has more experience in arguing his case, although in my experience pastors just have better refined tactics for derailing the argument, and are intellectually deceptive.
just to help out your friends, the old testament applies, but we shouldn't get so anal about rules that we forget jesus died for our sins and god loves us infinitely and thats all that matters, that we live for god. jesus clears this up in the new testament cause the jewish priests were taking the old testament so literally, they were hypocrites who were missing the whole point.
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